Wednesday, July 1, 2009

NewSong NOC Scandal?

I haven't attended church at NewSong NOC since last December, other than helping out with sound during Easter weekend. I had an issue with the sermon/guest speaker during one of the services prior to the presidential election last year. It gave me a strong impression that NewSong was supportive of illegal immigration, since we should be "compassionate" to those less fortunate. I totally disagree. The guest speaker was basically an immigration activist and he gave out a lot of misleading information that went unchallenged. After several email exchanges with the lead pastor, I gave up and left NewSong since he never addressed my concerns ("call me" is not an answer). I was more upset that after helping them run the sound system for four years, sometimes working 14+ hours each weekend, I thought that I was part of the community and deserved a bit more consideration. Oh well.

Even though I've been gone, I'm still on their general email list and the more specific CAM (Creative Arts Ministry) list. I just found out that the lead pastor is stepping down because he "violated his marriage vows." I'm not sure what that means exactly and I don't have more details. He is married and has two young children. I hope it's not a Mark Sanford type meltdown and things work out between him and his family.

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have to wonder why you've posted this on your blog and why you've let this "scandal" remain here. In the context in which you've posted it, it sounds like you're some vengeful jerk who was mad at the topic of the sermon so you've decided to ravage this guy and his family. Real classy. What would be just as interesting and rightfully yours to publish would be the stuff you do at your computer late at night when you think you're all alone and no one will find out about it. Or any of your other sins you so assiduously keep hidden on this fabulous blog of yours.

totochi said...

Wow, hate much? So many questions... post a reply using your real name and we can discuss. Anonymous insults don't do much for me.

Anonymous said...

Sure, you post your name and address and we can talk about it in person. See you soon.

Anonymous said...

Sure, you post your name and address and we can talk about it in person. See you soon.

totochi said...

Lame. Everyone at NOC at the time knows who I am. If NOC staff has issues with my blog, they can contact me directly.

Do you have something you want me to do or are you just a troll, leaving anonymous insults without adding anything to the discussion?

totochi said...

And... unless you're the ex-pastor of NewSong NOC, you have no knowledge of the situation.

"you've decided to ravage this guy and his family"
BS. I didn't make any of this up; all this was announced both at NewSong NOC and by Dave Gibbons at NewSong Irvine.

"vengeful jerk... blah, blah, blah"
Yeah, real classy. Calling me names with zero facts.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I'm not a member of Newsong NOC or of Newsong Irvine, so I don't know who you are. I genuinely wish I did, so I could talk with you in person. Do you see how the leadership of Newsong did it? They told the members of NOC and Irvine; they did it, I assume, respectfully and not in some gossipy, trashy fashion such as you've done here. I googled service times for Newsong NOC and stumbled upon your incendiary crap. Unfortunately. Hey, buddy, quit crying about my comments. You published it, deal with the consequences of your actions. Zero facts, indeed. You've provided me with everything I need to conclude you're an immature kid looking to be noticed. I'm fascinated by your self-confession that your 14+ hours working the sound system somehow makes you like a super-special Christian. The good news is despite this blog, despite your desperate desire for regard and attention, despite your incredible smallness, our God is bigger. Taking you to task on this is my personal mission. I'll try to find out who you are from the NewSong people and hopefully we will chat in person.

totochi said...

Just as I thought... zero facts and a lot of assumptions. You don't know anything yet managed to toss out multiple personal insults. All you've done is insinuated my motives and hyperventilate about your ignorant assertions. Go talk to everyone on NOC staff, the worship team, and the sound team before you come back here spewing poison about things you don't understand.

"deal with the consequences of your actions"
Funny, this post has been here for 18 months and the only "consequence" to so far is some anonymous ass harassing me through comments.

"gossipy, trashy fashion", "incendiary crap"
I posted one sentence: "I just found out that the lead pastor is stepping down because he "violated his marriage vows." You seriously need to get some perspective and maybe anger management. BTW, those are the exact words in emails from two members of CAM so stop with the false accusation that I'm making stuff up.

"Taking you to task on this is my personal mission."
I'm flattered, but I really think you should set higher goals in life.

You've wasted enough of my time. Either get some facts or keep your ignorant comments and insults off my blog.

Anonymous said...

Okay, let me try to explain this internet thing to you. I googled "Newsong noc service times." Your blog pops up. This means that whenever someone puts in Newsong noc or something akin to it, your blog goes up as a result. This means that random people who know nothing about what occurred with the lead pastor, such as myself, find out about this terrible happenstance with no other context. This means you are publishing exceedingly personal information about a person and his family without regard to its effect and it appears you do so because you are, at worst, a vengeful, attention-hungry jerk or, at best, an irresponsible, immature, ignorant and thoughtless little child. So, though you received this e-mail because apparently you were in the CAM and part of the Newsong family, you are hereafter distributing it to people not in CAM and not in Newsong. The question then is why do you continue to post this blog and continue to spread privately-obtained information on your blog? Would you be as happy if someone were publicizing your privately-executed sins to the world?

totochi said...

Sigh... this is my last reply until you go and get some facts instead of spewing poison. You call yourself a Christian? Go back and count how many insults you've thrown out. Are you this nasty in real life?

I posted one line about this issue. It was sent out as email to the entire NewSong NOC community, mentioned at NewSong Irvine to thousands of people, and it was even on the NewSong website. This is not private info, regardless how you want to spin it. I can't help what comes up on Google searches... and I posted this 18 months ago without any issues or comments until you came along.

I don't understand your overreaction and hyperbole to one sentence in a blog that was. I suggest you grow up and deal with your emotional issues more productively.

Remember, don't come back until you talk to everyone at NewSong NOC. If you're going to continue to rant and hurl insults, at least have some facts behind it.

totochi said...

One more thing...

"The question then is why do you continue to post this blog and continue to spread privately-obtained information on your blog?"

I have almost 1600 posts on my blog. I posted one paragraph 18 months ago so stop pretending I'm "continuing" to do something. You could have asked me for more context and even request that I go back and delete the post. Instead, you start insinuating devious motives and have continued to call me names non-stop... and I'm supposed to be the immature one?!

No more fact free diatribes, please.

totochi said...

Well, it's been two Sundays since your crude tirade on my blog, plenty of time to fact-find at NewSong NOC if you were so inclined in the first place.

No? I didn't think so. Personal mission... what a joke. Free advice: go find some worthwhile goals in life and stop trolling the Internet.

Anonymous said...

serving at church is not the same as at work. if you want consideration then church ministry is not your thing, better so something else useful. if you crave rewards and considersations then you completely miss the whole point, no wonder you were bitter

totochi said...

Wow, is troll #1 back or is this a different troll? Do you have nothing better to do than to judge and insult me on my own blog? Why do you assume you know anything about me or whether I was "bitter"?

I did not say anything about "rewards and considerations" for serving so stop putting words in my mouth. I had an issue about a sermon topic and the senior pastor did not responded to my questions/comments. Maybe if I was a stranger, he could blow me off. I just expected a bit more after attending (forget serving) the church for 3 years.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you delete this post?

totochi said...

From the way you pose the question, it seems like the "normal" course of action is to delete the post. Why do you think I should delete it? Do I allow any anonymous troll dictate what I write?

If NOC staff or the ex-pastor wants me to remove the post, they (you?) can contact me directly and I will do so.

Anonymous said...

Publish your phone number and address and we can talk about this in person. Or are you just a bitter, attention-hungry, effective weapon of Satan, coward?

totochi said...

Are you serious? Post my name/address at the request of some anonymous, name-calling psycho on the Internet? Are you going to come to my house?!

I'm assuming you are the same anonymous (coward!) from a year ago that left multiple rude comments here. Have you been at NOC for the entire year? If so, I see you haven't learned very much. If not, then why keep trolling?

If you really want to "talk" instead of harass, there is a forum right here. Ask a question civilly like an adult, and I'll provide you an answer. I'll overlook the arrogance that I'm obligated to reply to anonymous 3-party trolls on my blog.

==========

"Or are you just a bitter, attention-hungry, effective weapon of Satan, coward?"

Sigh... I'll explain it to yo again, slower this time:

-bitter: No bitterness... I burned out at NOC and now serving at another church.

-attention-hungry: Riiight... how many people do you think read this blog? 2? 3? 4 including you? Dave Gibbons made an announcement at Newsong Irvine to thousands of people. Think that draws more attention than some random blog?

-effective weapon of Satan: Effective, eh? Examples please.

-coward: Because I won't post my name and address to the entire world? This from Mr/Ms "Anonymous"?

Jem said...

I never knew Pastor Brian very well. I started attending Newsong NOC regularly after he left. What I can say is that it took a lot of courage to admit to his wrongdoings. He did the right thing by stepping down, so he could deal with his struggles and make things right with God and with his family. I believe that now he is doing pretty well, as far as I know. Totochi, I think that the reason why Pastor Brian wanted you to call him was that your questions about what the guest speaker was saying required long, complex answers, which are easier to convey over the phone or in person, rather than through e-mail. The immigration debate is indeed a complicated topic.

Newsong NOC is a pretty good church, but it is not for everybody. I myself am not sure how long I will stay there. Yet, I do not doubt that God will do great things through Newsong NOC.

totochi said...

@Jem

Thanks for your comment. I really have no issues with Newsong. It was the right church for me at the time. Maybe the tone of the previous comments suggest some animosity but it was really more disappointment than anything else.

To clarify, the lead pastor did not discuss the email with me at all. I was serving on the worship team at the time but the message in question was so biased and misleading (in my opinion) that I could not continue to serve. All I wanted was clarification on the church's position on illegal immigration. Was it an affirmation of Newsong's leadership's beliefs or were they blinded sided by the speaker too? I give them props for discussing difficult issues but they definitely broke their promise to be politically neutral.

To this date I still do not know why they let an immigration activist give a "sermon" at NOC. After months of no information from the NOC leadership, I decided to move on.

I'm glad you found Newsong and it is serving your needs.

Anonymous said...

I'm not here to hate on you or anything, but this blog keeps on popping up whenever I type in Newsong NOC. Something I just don't really approve of is the title. Newsong NOC Scandal sounds like something illegal and bad is happening there, but there really isn't. You're kinda making this little thing sound a lot bigger than it is. I respect your opinion but as you have said your part, I am entitled to say mine. Newsong NOC is my home and we are a community.

totochi said...

Sigh, another anonymous commenter. At least there's no rude name-calling yet.

"You're kinda making this little thing sound a lot bigger than it is."

1. For the nth time, I posted one line about it in one blog post out of now 2000+ posts. Not big.
2. Maybe our values are different. Marriage infidelity is not a "little thing" to me.

"I respect your opinion but as you have said your part, I am entitled to say mine."

1. Good.
2. I don't need or want your editorial approval.
3. It wasn't opinion. It was one line about what occurred. Calling me "effective weapon of Satan", I believe, is opinion.
4. I'm not sure why you think you're entitled to your opinion here. Would you allow strangers to come into your house and spray paint graffiti on you walls? You are entitled to start your own blog/website to praise New Song NOC or trash talk any dissenters all you like.

As I told a previous commenter, I'm happy that you found home/community at NOC.

alex chu said...

Hi, my name is Alex Chu, and I've been serving on the Newsong NOC sound team since a year or two after it started. My wife stumbled onto this blog yesterday and I can't believe I never knew about it. Anyways...
To the anonymous commenter(s) who have been saying some very unkind and unloving things about (totochi), I'd like to say I remember serving with him and he, nor his blog posts deserve any of the negative comments directed at it. He served the community of NOC diligently with grace, skill, and patience and the hard hours he put in simply proved his interest in the well being of the community.
The first comment (actually most of the comments but especially the first) in response to the initial post was really inappropriate in its accusations into totochi's personal life/sins and (even if they were true) were not spoken in love as a Christian should say it (especially in public).
Overall this blog only points out there was a disagreement in the author's view on what constituted as correct teaching in the community of NOC, of which he had significant personal, spiritual, and investment.
Most of the new testament is the apostles telling the body of believers to stay away from false doctrine and admonishing those churches which had been practicing incorrectly. Even the most faithful of churches like Ephesus were corrected by Apostle Paul and those words were placed in God's Word for all to see. I'm not saying everything the author said was perfect or uplifting, but nothing said in the original post was overtly malicious and he even added some well wishes at the end.
The Newsong leadership team is not perfect and in the author's case, effectively pushed him away at the time. It's part of NOC's past (it may still occur now but hopefully not) and it’s not something we should hide or try throw stones at. We simply need to acknowledge the individuals experience of the events and do our best to reconcile in Jesus name.
I do think I understand the anonymous commenter(s) passion in trying to defend the community of NOC, but again, I think it was done in passion rather than grace. I'm in the sound booth every other Sunday if there is a need to personally talk to me about what I've said.
To totochi, I'm sorry about what happened and I wish I was more aware of it at the time. Hope you're doing well wherever you are at now.
-God Bless

Daisy said...

I came upon this blog via Google search and I do remember Brian Kim. I like his sermons and though they were funny and very easy to understand. This was at Newsong Irvine. Then NOC was born and Brian became the lead pastor at the church and would guest speak at Irvine at times. They would also had this speaker called "Keith" that committed adultery but was forgiven by his wife. I would barf each time he spoke. They had other speakers who committed adultery but was forgiven by their wives. More barf. Then I heard Brian was stepping down in North OC because he also committed adultery. Jeez guys, can you keep it in your pants? As far as the troll is concerned, I bet you it's someone that has knowledge of the situation.

Anonymous said...

It is OK my friend. I'm glad you stopped attending the church on 2009. I do hope you find a good home church that is suitable for you to grow. Newsong North Orange County (NOC) is now a totally different church. It's no longer like what you knew before. Their current lead pastor, SH, is very different than their previous pastors, BK and PP. This new lead pastor is a very straight-forward person who happens to be a coach of Choice Center Leadership University for over 10 years. This guy is very smart. At first he infuses the church leadership with his influence, build relationship with them, etc. to the point that the church leadership somehow trust him all the way. Afterwards, he advises all of the church staffs and leadership team to go to Choice Center. It costs about $2500 to get into the program and it requires the participant to recruit 5 people in order to graduate from the program. Choice Center by itself may be a good leadership program but mixing it with church leadership is not a good idea as some of its principles are conflicting with what the Bible teaches. The church used to have more than 10 small groups but now it's down to 2 small groups only. All because of this Choice Center issue. You can imagine how chaotic the situation is over there now. We should keep them in prayer so that God will truly reveal His will for the church that no man can interfere. So yeah, don't worry about that anonymous guy / girl. I hope you're in a much better place now.

Anonymous said...

Choice Center is another Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) seminar similar to other LGATs to include: Landmark, Leadership Dynamics, Lifespring, PSI, and many others. LGAT seminars are designed to "transform" and "empower" your life in order for you to achieve whatever personal goals you may have. If you're interested in attending Choice Center or other similar LGATs do your research and make an informed decision. Ask the lead pastor, staff members, leadership team members, and church members of NOC who've attended Choice Center the following questions:
1. What was your experience like?
2. Is Choice Center for everyone? Why or why not?
3. How has Choice Center affected your relationship with others?
Ask those members at NOC who've elected not to attend Choice Center the following questions:
1. What made you decide not to attend Choice Center?
2. How has Choice Center affected NOC?
Here's one quote about LGAT seminars:
"Transformational Seminars have become a growing threat to the Christian church in that they have made significant inroads into the church body. Christians need to become aware of the seductive nature of these seminars and their ability to cause dissension within the body of believers. It is not uncommon for those who have been through such seminars to develop an elitist attitude toward others and thereby undermine the spiritual climate within the fellowship." (http://www.christianinformation.org/article.asp?artID=28)

I believe the current staff members (http://www.newsongnoc.com/people-profiles/) and leadership team members who have all attended Choice Center have either impacted or influenced the current climate at NOC. Pastor Sabastian should be examined carefully and be held accountable for his role in influencing NOC with his background in Choice Center.

I also believe that NOC can turnaround from its current state and seek revival through prayer (repentance, healing, protection) and worship. I forgive those who are in leadership positions that have attended Choice Center who have caused unintentional harm to the church body at NOC. I bless those in leadership positions at NOC who have attended Choice Center with spiritual insight and spiritual wisdom so they may lead others to Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit. For those current staff members or leadership team members that are reading this--I believe it's time that we pray together. Reach out to those who have stopped attending NOC because of Choice Center and ask for their forgiveness. If you are not led to do this--then I ask that you bless each person who no longer attends NOC because of Choice Center.

Anonymous said...

Last time I checked, SH just resigned from NOC. So... pretty much, after the Choice Center issue, the tithing and offering dropped significantly which led to insufficient fund to pay building rent (HOPE University Auditorium) for Sunday service, then going from house-to-house, park-to-park for Sunday service, etc. which nothing's wrong with that. I'm just sad that the church community which has existed for 10 years is now pretty much dissolved and the new lead pastor just takes off afterwards. What a tragedy. I learn that every time God wants to do something / save His people, He sends someone (Moses, Gideon, Samuel, David ... , Jesus Christ). On the other hand, the enemy pretty much has the same method. I'm thankful for everything that happens at NOC. NOC has become very unhealthy and needs a major pruning.

Anonymous said...

Whenever I think of NOC, it saddens me. SH's introduction of Choice Center to the church is what alerted me to his clear lack of biblical knowledge. It also scares me to think that he was put in a position of authority with the responsibility to lead a church. He clearly doesn't have the qualifications nor the credentials to be called a pastor. This is a warning that we cannot blindly accept what church pastors teach, rather, we MUST test everything against God's infallible word. False prophets and antichrists are already in this world and we must be alert. Pray for whoever still remains at NOC that God open their eyes against the spirit of deception and lies.

Anonymous said...

Why did the congregation select Pastor Sebastian after Pastor Brian resigned?

Anonymous said...

It all started from Tom Hsieh forcely influenced other members in Leadership team to nominate Sebastian Huynh and disregarded the direction from the Pastoral Search Committee. The congregation didn't select Sebastian initially. The Leadership team (Melanie Wong, Liz Yim, Ryan DeGuzman, Tom Hsieh) did. But then they threw a mini election and they claimed Sebastian is elected. They never revealed the election result, which is a shady move from the leadership team.

Anonymous said...

How come the mother church didn't guide the NOC congregation?